(HipHopDX,CultureVI) In a heated interview, Wale talks about why it's okay to be confident and why fans need to look past Rozay's co-sign and more into his lyrics.
Over the past 12 months, Washington D.C. rapper Wale has taken a lot of flack from fans for signing with Rick Ross's Maybach Music Group. Despite the criticism, Wale proved that he could hang with Rozay, Pill and Meek on May's Self Made Vol. 1 without having to sacrifice his artistic credibility. Now, in a lengthy and explosive interview with Culture VI, Wale addresses those who doubted him switching to Rick Ross's label.
Full Text of Interview -
Wale: 11 people in the studio right? They’re gonna hear this interview, because it’s important
Culture VI: Lot of respect for agreeing to talk
Wale: We can keep this interview respectful, because it took a lot. In the tweet you said something to the effect of, I don’t wanna get it wrong, what did you say?
Culture VI: I don’t know, I’ve said a lot of things on Twitter
Wale: It was something like my album wasnt good and I’m cocky, right?
Culture VI: Yea, that’s comes up a lot
Wale: Before we get into this, just like you’re recording this interview, the whole room is gonna hear it. I haven’t done an interview in a very long time, you feel me? (puts on speakerphone)
Culture VI: No problem. I’m glad you agreed.
Wale: I wanted to do this interview, first and foremost, because I’m all about inspiring myself,, and I ain’t really done an interview in a long time and I probably get a lot of text messages from certain people “why you do it?”. It was necessary because you are somebody that, I read your time line, you are somebody who is intelligent and well spoken so I thought it was interesting to hear those comments you made about me and my work. Especially the personal things, like the ‘cocky’ and all of that. So we can get right into the interview. I just wanted to let everyone know why I was doing this weird ass interview in the middle of a studio session. Weird not meaning the person I’m talking to, but weird as far as people are working on an amazing song here. I got a rock band in here, I got Rosco Dash in here, I got 3 producers and I got some crazy engineers here. I wanted to stop just to do this interview, just a little intermission.
Culture VI: I appreciate that. Listen, I’m a fan of hip-hop, I root for anybody to make good music, I never root for somebody not to make good music, selfishly, because I want to hear it. I’d like nothing better than for you to make an album that I want to listen to. And that’s why I’m glad we’re getting a chance to talk, because not being a friend of yours, and not knowing you personally, I can only speak on what I hear through the music, through your other interviews and social media. So getting to talk to you directly, I feel I’ll at least get a better picture of who you are and your thought process. So starting off, I’m gonna get right into it, what do you feel is the biggest misconception about you?
Wale: I mean, there’s a lot. Human beings, that’s what we’re here for. We’re supposed to misunderstand each other. If everybody understood each other, we’d have wings…and we’d be able to talk to God. Now I say that and say this, my music is based on reality and artists are supposed to almost accentuate all of their qualities for better or worse. I’m sure the most depressing song ever written by the most depressing person on Earth wasn’t as depressed as they depicted it to be. A song is supposed to accentuate human emotions. So, I put those things and emotions on the genre, Hip Hop, where we are praised for how we say rather than what we say. So if I exude confidence on a hip-hop record and I’m really good at exuding confidence on it, you’re gonna call me cocky? Well what should I tell you? I woke up at 8 o’clock this morning, ate a bowl of cheerios, went to the studio, made a mediocre song, and went to sleep? Is that what people would prefer you think? Because I’m sure if I said I put on some 400 dollar Jordans, a Moschino shirt, and some PRPS’s and I went to the studio and killed every nigga in hip-hop on a song…motherfuckers would check for me. I’d get close to a million followers quickly.
Culture VI: It seems that fans and people I see on Twitter, they really have exceptionally strong opinions of you. Whether it’s positive, negative, accurate or not, a lot of people feel one way strongly. What do you think it is about you specifically that’s so polarizing? That gets people on one side or the other?
Wale: It’s the “Sanders Theory”. Deion or Barry, pick one. People love Barry Sanders for doing what? For damaging his body for the Detriot Lions for 10 years. Then when he walked away from the game with both of his knees intact, I heard the worse things from people of that area, the Lions fans, about him. Deion, put it all out there. I’m gonna high step. I’m excited. I’m gona put it all out there. I don’t get to score that many touchdowns, so I’m excited. Come enjoy this joy with me. Music is a drug, my nigga. Be happy with me, be happy for me. I sold 28,000 records my first week, with no push from my label. My mother couldn’t even buy my album from across the street from my house. You don’t think I’m supposed to be excited to still be here? Working with Rick Ross, one of the hottest rappers in the game? You don’t think I’m excited to have a double platinum record with Roscoe Dash and Waka Flocka? Them same people who was talking about this, that and the third, hip-hop blah blah blah, are the same people in the club singing “No Hands” verbatim. Same people saying “Wale, he’s selling out, blah blah blah”, those are the same people rocking when “No Hands” came out. “Why is he doing this, what’s going on?” Hip Hop. This is hip hop music. And my mission statement is to never dumb it down, but never over-think it.
Culture VI: Do you think that people are overly critical of you? Do you think their expectations are too high?
Wale: Let me tell you something. I literally, physically, in real life, live ten minutes away from the President of the United States. I’m the only rapper. Our sports teams ain’t doing too well. I know the target is on my back and on my chest. Next question is “do I give a fuck?” and how much do I, if so. You got to have the target. I wasn’t talking like this before. Because it’s like, you know what? Let me just keep some of my feelings back. But that ain’t having ambition, you know what I’m saying? The night of, it might have been last year, it was one of the BET Awards. That night, I sat in my hotel room and I didn’t sleep. I knew I was going to leave Interscope. I knew it. You still listening?
Culture VI: Yea, I’m hearing it, I’m hanging on every word.
Wale: Why you hanging on my words right now? Besides the fact you’re doing the interview, why? Are they interesting?
Culture VI: I think anybody’s personal story is interesting as long as they’re speaking it truthfully.
Wale: Nah, I can tell you 90% of this room’s personal story, if told exactly the truth, it wouldn’t be interesting, probably. So anybody’s story isn’t interesting. Having a wife, kid, a dog? That’s not interesting. Going to college for four years, graduating, making $100,000 a year? That’s not interesting. Selling 28,000 records and the whole spiel that I just gave you might not even be interesting, but it’s a lot more interesting than the aforementioned.
Culture VI: Do you consider your career where you’re at right now? It sounds like you do.
Wale: I obsess, I OBSESS…over success. And I’m not there yet.
Culture VI: Okay. What is success? What’s your personal definition?
Wale: It’s within. I know the bum standing under the bridge on New York Avenue in DC might feel successful some days. It has nothing to do with personal wealth, how much pussy you get, how much money you got. In my mind, I have an unexplainable goal that I have to reach and I won’t know it until I’m there. When I’m there, I’ll know, but it’s just not now. I can’t define what successful is. The day I can define successful, a blind man can describe what yellow looks like.
Culture VI: Alright, let me ask you this question. How close to fulfilling your potential were you on Attention Deficit. Like, if your talent is a 10, where was that album? How reflective of your talent was that album?
Wale: Albums are like, this is about to sound so cliche, but albums are like journal entries. I just wrote down what I’m feeling. So who the fuck is anybody to tell me that what I’m feeling isn’t conducive to life? It’s conducive to my life. I really went into a bathroom and seen girls doing blow! I wrote about it, you like to hear it? Here it go. “Chillin” – that was my shit! When I wrote it, I was feeling it! That’s what I was feeling. And I’m doing the same thing with this Ambition album. I put everything that I’m feeling now. And I’m older now, I wrote Attention Deficit like 3 years ago.
Culture VI: But, when you’re talking about music, you’re not just talking about the words and the feelings you write down, you’re talking about how you put those feelings down behind the music. How you craft it and craft the songs. And when you listen to Attention Deficit right now, was that very reflective of your talent or could you have done more? Do you feel like where you were at that part of life was reflected on the album?
Wale: With all due respect, and I say this with confidence because I know there’s a thin line between confidence and cockiness, that’s why we’re on the phone right now. You’re going to hear Attention Deficit tomorrow, or sometime after this interview, and you’re going to hear 3 or 4 things that you didn’t notice. And I promise you that. And I don’t even know you. I think that’s good music. I think that’s what good music is.
Culture VI: So you feel it was reflective of your talent level?
Wale: Listen, I have no reason in my mind to believe that if some of them records got the exposure – I got the whole video for “90210″ now and everybody was thinking– these people that came on board recently will think it’s a new record. And they’ll probably call the radio station and ask for it, or they’ll probably try to find it. And then they’ll feel silly, because it’s been out for 2 years. But the timing is everything. Timing is 100% everything. Me and J Cole dropping in 94? Quatruple platinum in 94! Kendrick Lamar, Big Sean, me, all of us? WIZ KHALIFA?! You trying to tell me Wiz Khalifa was nominated for Best New Artist? You talking about the same Wiz Khalifa that I was bumping in college?! Oh okay. Timing is everything, my brother. And at the time, when I wrote Attention Deficit, it was the time. And Ambition will be the time. The only difference now is the microphone is a lot louder. And niggaz got that fucking fuckery out they ears.
Culture VI: Alright, you mentioned 90210. You had that, Shades, Diary. I mean, you had some very lyrical type records…
Wale: Was I cocky back then?
Culture VI: On the records, or right now?
Wale: No! I’m giving you what you want. Was I cocky back then? That was the question I’m asking
Culture VI: Honestly, I listened to the album. I didn’t get the cockiness sense as much when I listened to the album the first time, I was really just starting to check your stuff, I had listened to the mixtapes first.
Wale: So what did you think?
Culture VI: My personal opinion? I wasn’t very impressed by the album. I mean, I liked some of it…
Wale: Good, I’m glad though. The album probably wasn’t for you. I don’t know you, but I don’t think you’re a woman. I don’t think you would relate to Shades.
Culture VI: I thought Shades was very well written though. That was actually one of the records I liked. I liked Shades, I liked Diary. I felt you on those because it sounded like you. What I personally felt, as I started listening to your catalogue, I started hearing a lot of the same type of records, especially when I listen to Self Made. I was listening to Self Made, and I was trying to wonder where this wonder kid Wale went because I just started hearing–
Wale: The wonder kid of Wale hadn’t been born yet, because apparently my first album wasn’t to your standards or to your liking. And, what you got to understand, in Hip Hop, when did you ever hear Biggie rap like how he rapped on Notorious Thugs? On Notorious Thugs right? So..if, in fact, that’s “infack” too, that’s a DC word, “infack”. If in fact, Bone Thugs and Harmony and Biggie both went diamond, and then said “You know what? Let’s do an album together.” I’m quite sure…that the greatest rapper of all-time…would be rapping like Bone. Would be rapping like Notorious Thugs. And I’m pretty sure, God bless the dead, if Biggie’s album would have came out AFTER that, he’d be rapping like motherfucking Christopher Wallace! Next question, please…
Culture VI: Rick Ross has a very specific formula that he follows. It’s really reminiscent of 50 Cent. When he did his album, he just kind of regurgitated the same type of sound until everybody was tired. I’m not a Rick Ross fan, but I liked his album. I listened to Self Made, and I’m already getting tired of the sound. And then I hear someone like you, who is very creative, and I start to wonder is this going to stifle your creativity, when people are already criticizing you for not showing growth.
Wale: It’s a slight possibility that we put an album together for the people that appreciate the summer. It’s a slight possibility that we kept all the ideas for the albums, like the reaaaaal stuff. Maybe. I don’t think we’re going to sit around with like Steven Spielberg, Hype Williams, Spike Lee and everyone else to create this big movie compilation for the people. We gave them records this summer! I don’t hear no complaints from Flex, Envy, none of them. But I understand your concern, and I appreciate it, as a somewhat of a fan. But, you got to understand who you’re dealing with. My first record, the first verse on there was only 8 bars! That wasn’t no profound shit! ‘Name Wale, they probably know me from the Roc” What the fuck man?! “Shake it, shake it, shake it offff”. That might sound crazy to everyone else, but everybody in DC, they’re going to know that for the rest of their life. So how you going to say ‘Oh, I’m doing a song Malcolm X, and I’m not providing anything for the people’? You talking about somebody who made a song called “Rhyme of the Century”, wrote it when I was like 19 years old, and wanted that to be my biggest record, first song ever! Right? I’m the same person! Listen to Malcolm X. I got a lot of Muslim family members and friends. There’s a lot of gems in that verse. If you can look over the fact I’m rhyming on a quote-unquote “Lex Lugar-sounding beat”, or rhyming with two ex-drug dealers. If you can look past that and listen to the verse…you MIGHT hear something, just maybe. If you know into anybody who’s into sneakers and collects sneakers, you MIGHT understand all the jargon I’m talking about in “Fitted Cap”. And I sound very narcissistic right now, like I’m talking down, but that’s not it. I’m going to defend my music. That’s why I take so long to write some of them verses, so I can defend them. Now why don’t you read–somebody got my lyrics up for “By Any Means” – READ IT! You can google it, then read it! And then go ask anybody who know the Qu’ran, and who is appreciative of the faith how they feel about that. Because I touched a lot of with that who never really knew. There’s beauty in that, my nigga, like for real. Really. There’s beauty in that 14 year old kid who slept outside to get them new Jordans, but you ain’t heard me talk about them sneakers in two years. There’s beauty in that. There’s beauty in a lot of motherfuckers that cried, begged, screamed, kicked down the door to hear Wale on a Just Blaze record right? I gave that initially. And the first verse was for you, fortunately. “They tried to tell me I don’t fit up in this mothafucka/ Cause Rozay be talkin’ white, he think he Uncle Ruckus”. Well that might be the case. I can get a Just Blaze beat on my solo album now because of that! That means something to me! “Running Rebels”…that’s hip-hop right there. That’s the same producer that was on my first mixtape who made that beat! Did he change too? Did he do anything different? Nah, that ain’t gonna say that. If I would of put that joint—if I would have made a mixtape 200 Miles Runnin and put that song on there, and put By Any Means verse and rapped it on something with a sample that I probably could never clear, ‘Oh yea, Wale so hip hop. Yea’. These quote-unquote “hip-hop enthusiasts’ don’t—they getting the game fucked up now. Everybody’s an A&R.. for the world’s record label. And they signing everybody. Youtube niggas, everybody, everything. You not listening. You stopped listening! You used to listen, you stopped. You know why you stopped? Because you became an A&R like everybody else. They stopped listening, they started—. Now everybody sizing up. Nobody want to get in the motherfucking game, but everyone wants to call the fucking plays now. Ya’ll stop listening. The niggas that’s listening is Clark Kent, who called me, say “Man, my nigga, you killed that”. Young Guru to call me. For Fab to say “Man, you killin that shit”. They ain’t stop listening. It’s the niggas with the computers, that sit down there and analyze everything. If you go out and see the world and enjoy the club, and see some women and see some things and read some things, and stop looking at the fact that I’m rhyming over something that might sound like something you heard before and listen to the words, like hip hop used to be…niggas might see something.
Culture VI: That’s actually a very fair point. I agree 100 percent when it comes to that. Me personally, I’m 34 years old, when I go out—
Wale: OHHHH! So there you have it! I’m 27, you’re 34 right? So where does that leave us?
Culture VI: Nah, but see, that’s different. I’m not criticizing for something not sounding like it came out of 1994. When I’m out, I listen to the Rick Ross records in the club. Or when I’m with my wife on Friday night–
Wale: What club you in?! What club you went to? What club did you go to? I’m serious, with all due respect. Because in 8 years, when I’m there, chances are I’m not trying to hear nothing geechy niggas is talking about no more, for real. So what club you went in that you got an opportunity to analyze whether or not if you liked how a Rick Ross record felt?
Culture VI: I don’t listen to Rick Ross in my IPod. I listen to Rick Ross when I’m out, when I’m having drinks. I listen to probably half the records on Maybach Music when I’m out
Wale: I’m just going to tell you, because I know you’re an intellectual dude, but you’re showing signs of weakness because you contradicted yourself. I don’t want to tell you where, because when the—you can play it back, and you just did it like 3 times. I respect you enough to tell you that. Because if I didn’t I’d just wait until you got off and just tore you a new one. But I’m not even going to mention it. Now or then. So now back to the ole ‘you heard the album’ while out. Heard half of the album while you were out. It’s about 14 songs on there. Last time I checked, we didn’t have 7 singles. But…I think you might be a closet Maybach fan, so we all good.
Culture VI: I told you, I listen to the records. I wouldn’t put it in my IPod—
Wale: But you just told me you heard it when you was out! We don’t have 7 singles out! You heard all 14 records while out? Wherever club you was at, they played all 14 Maybach records? Who the DJ? Ross probably need to sign that nigga. You heard the whole album.
Culture VI: No, I listen to any new album that people are talking about that has something that interests me. I’ll listen to anything and give it a fair chance. Of course I would, why wouldn’t I? I talk music all day.
Wale: And I appreciate. If you actually sitting back and taking an honest look into the music, I respect that. But if you’re being like a lot of these people that all of the sudden are A&Rs, they probably work at Safeway, or go to school or could be a doctor, a lawyer whatever, but they (want to be) A&Rs on the internet? I can’t respect that. You got to go out and touch the people, you got to go out where we at. By all means, I am not no street nigga. I don’t try to be no street nigga, I don’t want to be no street nigga. I’m a regular nigga, born in D.C., grew up in the suburbs of Maryland. Around a WHOLE lot of ignorant niggas though. So I understand. I understand. My best friend been locked up for 6 years. I know! You know what I’m saying? So before niggas go into that “Blahblahblah, what is he doing?” Nigga! First of all, I always rapped about bitches! And I rapped about women. So, we can throw all that “Blahblahblahblah, he’s rapping–” Nah, that was always the case. I’ve always had subject matter. There’s always subject. It’s all over the album if you listen to it. Maybe you should read the lyrics then. Maybe it’s not for you, but the words is there. If you read it, you’d feel it.
Culture VI: My thing is, I’m listening to some of the Self Made songs, and unless I’m out somewhere, it wasn’t hitting me like that. When that happens, you stop paying attention to the lyrics. Because a song is more than lyrics, it’s the whole package. And that’s what I think that Wale fans are afraid of, that you’re going to lose some of the creativity and—
Wale: But…according to you, my first album wasn’t GOOD, so it’s not much to lose is my point. You can’t be the same person telling me I made a mediocre first album and telling me I’m going to lose my creativity. Something wasn’t there from the jump! In your eyes. So all it is right now for you to do is get your popcorn, get your seat, get your yellow Nuvo, you know what I’m saying? And sit down and be like “Ambition on the motherfucking way, let’s see what he do”.
Culture VI: Well, like I did with Attention Deficit and like I did with Self Made, I am going to buy the album, I am going to take a good, honest listen to it. I am going to root for a good album, because I want what every other hip hop fan wants. We just want more good music.
Wale: But guess what though? The whole point of this interview is for the fact that I want you to, in some shape or form, in your mind, root against me. And then I want you to be miserable for the first week the album come out. And then I call you again like “What’s up, bro?” Win, lose, or draw. Because I don’t know what success is, but it’s not in the form of record sales right now. But we’ll find out. Maybe we’ll know what success means when that motherfucker come out.
Culture VI: I hear that. And like I said man, it’s never personal. I can’t root against you, because I don’t root against any artist. Anybody who does hip hop for a living, for a hobby, as a passion, on the side, I root for them to make good music and do what they feel.
Wale: Of course you root for them! Because everyone’s an A&R to the world’s label. And I’ll say this. I have a WHOLE lot of talented people in one room right now and we are trying to find a GAMILLION ways to make another BMF. I’ma holla at you when we done making this record that sounds like EVERYTHING on Self Made so you can tell me I lost my creativity. My publicist keeps calling, telling me this a bad idea. Somebody snitched on me. I want you to keep everything, and do whatever you want with it. I appreciate your time, brother.
